09/02/10
Name: Sara W
Email Address:
saraliz5118@optonline.net
From: Howell, NJ
Name of Delivering Florist : Ana's Florist 564
Palmer Avenue Middletown, NJ 07748
My Complaint: Ana's Florist 564 Palmer
Avenue Middletown, NJ 07748
732-787-1410
http://store.anasfloristandgifts.com/merchant2/
August
26, 2010 I ordered a small bouquet of flowers for my mother's birthday. The
flowers were sent to her office in Middletown, NJ. They were brought home where
I saw them later that evening. I was not happy of the condition of the flowers;
they all had dead spots on them.
I called Ana's Florist the next day with my
complaint and was told that if I wanted new flowers I had to bring the flowers
to the shop so they could see them. When I told her that we did not live in the
area she (assuming the owner) told me that they only way I could get a refund or
replacement was to bring them to her shop and kept mentioning the fact that it
was only a $30 bouquet (so why should I care). Annoyed, I told her I would
bring them the following week but at that point would like a refund. I told my
mom about the situation and she offered to take them to the shop since it was
near her work. In the meantime we emailed a photo of the flowers to Ana's
florist to make sure that they could see them in the condition we received
them.
On August 31st my mom brought them to the shop where the owner
offered her roses for her inconvenience and told her that my credit card would
be refunded. After 2 days, September 2nd my card was not refunded so I figured
I'd call the shop to see what the status was. The same woman answered and
that's when it hit the fan. She first told me that the bouquet was missing a
top and she needed to investigate where the top went before refunding my $30
(which again she made it sound like why I am wasting her time to get such a
small refund). She then told me I would get a refund at the end of the week; it
was a Thursday when I called but while yelling told me that her week ends Sunday
(who would have known). The whole time she was screaming and accused me and my
mom of stalking her and hung up on me. I called her back trying to calm the
situation with no luck.
I will not nor will I have my mom enter her shop to
further pursue the refund, quite frankly the woman sounded threatening, I've
never been yelled at especially as a customer like she yelled at me. All I
wanted to do was get information about the refund that she told me I would
get.
I called FTD whom she provides flowers thru with my complaint. My
complaint is NOT against FTD at all, they sent us a new bouquet - which they did
not have to do. I just wanted them to know what my experience was with Ana's
florist, especially since they are affiliated.
I would recommend AGAINST
using Ana's Florist 564 Palmer Avenue Middletown.
08/17/10
Name: Robert D. Roberts
Email Address:
bob11605@aol.com
From: Richmond, VA
Name of Delivering Florist : Walters Flowers, Nutley
NJ
Ordered flowers from their website to be delivered to a
funeral home. The flowers were a spray titled "Celebration of Life Standing
Spray" item TF203-8. Price 126.09 which includes tax and delivery. The flowers
that were delivered did not even closely resemble what the picture showed on
their website. The funeral director and my sister and brother-in-law commented
how sparse the arrangement was. The website showed a very pretty, full, spray of
flowers. My wife called to complain and ask for a refund and was given alot of
excuses, i.e., my mother died last week, I don't make any money on FTD orders.
This wasn't even an FTD order as we had ordered and paid for the flowers
directly on their website. Their website also clearly states that their policy
is that if a customer isn't 100% satisfied, they would get a full refund. All
they've been doing is giving us excuses. We filed a complaint with American
Express, but they told us that Walter's flowers is not responding to their
inquiry. It is clear to us that their comment to my wife about not making money
on FTD orders demonstrates that they cut corners. They obviously felt that since
we lived in Virginia and the funeral was in Nutley NJ, that we wouldn't know the
difference. However, my sister and brother-in-law as well as the funeral
director let us know about this issue. The funeral director commented to my
sister that anytime he gets flowers from Walters Flowers, they are always
inferior to other florists flowers that arrive. We want a full refund. These
flowers were picked specifically to give hope and condolences to my brother in
law on the death of his mother. I am apalled that a florist would even think
about cutting corners on such a sensitive moment in a person's life.
08/08/10
DO NOT use this florist. I ordered a "specific" arrangement and they
shipped something totally different. I called to remind them of their "guarantee
policy" stated on their website. The supervisor told me "Sorry, you got your
moneys worth". I do not want anyone else to get hurt so please choose another
reputable florist. This florist is dishonest.
07/26/10
Name : withheld
Email Address
bossymama09@gmail.com
From: Ludington, MI
Name of Delivering Florist : Bela Floral
text area :
I ordered flowers a to be delivered the Thursday before Mother's day, because I
wasn't sure my mother wasn't going to be home on Sunday. We waited. And waited.
And waited. On Sunday, I called the shop to ask where the arrangement was, and I
was told that it was out for delivery. I reminded him that it was supposed to be
delivered on Thursday, and his comment to me was that since it was a Mother's
day arrangement, he determines when the arrangements are delivered. Come to find
out, the arrangement was never delivered, but was left on a table for the entire
weekend. I demanded my money back, and he refused, saying it wasn't his problem,
that it was because of his temporary delivery help. I will never use Bela Floral
again. The designer does beautiful work, and I understand that she doesn't have
the authority to override the owner's decision, but the guy who owns the shop
shouldn't be in business. He's rude, tactless, and acts self-important.
07/21/10
Name : sarah janoodi
Email Address :
saaet-j@hotmail.com
From : victoria
Name of Delivering Florist : Belmore Flowers 178 Belmore rd,
Balwyn, vic, 3103
hello all, i advice no one should buy flowers
from Belmore Flowers,178 belmore road balwyne vic, the owners have no ethics
whatsoever, i purchased flowers last night and i left the shop in utter
disappointment and shock.
they charge you outrageous prices, outrageous.
I
picked 3 different bunches of flowers and asked them to be put into one bunch,
which any other florist will do for you for FREE, you are already paying for the
flowers why should you be charged for the packing, it took the lady 1 minute to
take the elastic bands off each bunch and put the 3 bunches into one bunch. she
then demanded that it is $15 extra for her making them into one bunch. after i
got home i realized that not only her flowers were over priced she didn't even
give me all the flowers i had picked, she had gone to the back of the shop and
taken 1/2 from each bunch and kept the other 1/5.
this is disgraceful, never
ever again will i go into that florist i recommend no one else should, i was
forced to pay $88 for a bunch that didn't look any more than $25 value in look
and quality.
05/17/10
Name:
Email Address:
maa05752gmail.com
From: houston Tx
Name of Delivering
Florist : Ashley's Florist
text area : Ashley's Florist is the worst Florist
in the world I had order on the internet flower for a funeral to be deliver on
the 16 of may but when I call the recipient there never got them when I call the
800# they informed that they were not open on Sundays to call on Monday. When I
call on Monday they told me so what you want we are close on Sunday our web site
can't talk so what know. Terrible customer service. Will never use them again
that is for sure
05/10/10
Name : Daryl Bianchi-Rossi
Email :
dbbianch@knology.net
My Complaint : My
mother received her plant order # 81598433 delivered on Saturday as requested.
She stated the delivery man came to her door and gave her the live plants (Warm
Reqards). She stated that there was no information about the basket and
plants or who the local flower shop was that delivered it.
What was really
odd was the order came with a basket and (5) seperate plants in seperate plastic
containers placed in the basket. There was no card from the Sender (Daryl
Bianchi-Rossi).
My mother did say that the basket and plants were nice.
Is this normal for this paticular gift?
05/10/10
Name: Donna
Email Address :
From: APPLE VALLEY, CA
Name of Delivering Florist :
Floristbillingservices.com
Thought I ordered flowers online from
a local florist by going through Yahoo, Apple Valley Florists...clicked on
flower&giftorders@yahoo.com.
Came across Fleid Fresh Flowers, Apple Valley, Ca. Ordered flowers for mother's
day on 5/6/10 to be delivered on Sat., 5/8/10.. Rcv'd confirmation same day, my
money was debited, FLOWERS WERE NOT DELIVERED. Spent last (5) hrs today,
5/10/10 (MOM'S DAY WAS YESTERDAY!)trying to hunt down these people only to be
lied too and again be told they are a FLORIST in Apple Valley. When asked for
address, refused, asked for person's name, YOLANDA... Rude, hung up on me,
called back, got someone else, Guess What, no YOLANDA WORKS THERE. IT'S A
SCAM.. THERE IS NO FLORIST IN APPLE VALLEY CALLED FIELD FRESH FLOWERS. DO NOT
ORDER FROM THEM.. THEY CLAIM TO HAVE ATTEMPTED DELIVERY. MOM HOME ALL WEEKEND
NEVER LEFT. NO CALLS, NO DELIVERY NOTICE LEFT, NOTHING.. WHAT AN
UNPROFESSIONAL COMPANY TO DEAL WITH. OH BY THE WAY WHENEVER THEY REFUSE TO
ALLOW YOU TO SPEAK WITH A SUPERVISOR OR MGR. AND TELL YOU THEY ARE NOT THERE
DURING NORMAL BUSINESS HRS. IT'S A HUGE RED FLAG!!! NOT TO MENTION, PHONE'S
VOICE MAIL FULL ALL WEEKEND... GUESS I WASN'T ALONE.
05/10/10
Name : Donna
Email Address:
From: California
Name of Delivering Florist : Field Fresh
Flowers, Apple Valley CA
text area : What a horrible nightmare! Ordered
flowers on 5/6/10 to be delivered to mom for mother's day on 5/8/10. NO
DELIVERY ON THE 8TH. ON 9TH STILL NOT DELIVERED... CALLED NUMBER
1-866-736-3356. MAIL BOX FULL, # ON WEBSITE DOESN'T WORK! FINALLY GOT HOLD OF
A PERSON 5/10/10. EXTREMLY RUDE. LIED! TOLD ME THEY WERE A FLORIST IN APPLE
VALLEY. TRIED TO DELIVER. MOM HOME WEEKEND, NEVER LEFT. NO CALL, NO NOTE, NO
OTHER ATTEMPTS. CALLED BILLING SERVICE, LIED TO TOLD FLORIST WAS IN APPLE
VALLEY, TOLD HER NAME WAS YOLANDA, CALLED BACK, NICE LADY, THERE'S NO YOLONDA!
BILL'S MGR, OF COURSE HE'S NOT THERE DURING NORMAL BUSINESS HRS. WHAT A SCAM...
RUN FAST FROM
flower&giftorders@yahoo.com
aka..florestbillingservices.com aka..field fresh flowers. MOST LEGITIMATE
BUSINESSES HAVE ONE EMAIL AND MANAGER'S THAT ARE MORE THAN WILLING TO RESOLVE
ISSUES.. AND THEY ARE AT WORK DURING NORMAL BUSINESS HRS... GO FIGURE.
05/07/10
Name (can be just your first name) : Julie Baker
Email Address (optional) :
baker@ryanlaw.com
Where are you from?
: Puyallup, WA
Name of Delivering Florist : Lexi Floral & Gifts
text
area : I ordered flowers through FTD for my mother who lives in Indio, CA. It
was a LIVE Plant/Flower arrangement (FTD Item #EO-6059 The FTD Florist Designed
Blooming and Green Plants in a Basket". The florist, Lexi Floral & Gifts,
first delivered flowers meant for someone else including a card meant for
someone else. My mother called and let the florist know of the incorrect
delivery so that they could go to someone else (the florist did not even thank
her). Then my mother indicated what she received were SILK/FAKE flowers. This
is not what I ordered. I contacted FTD who said they would contact the florist
and have them make it right (satisfaction guaranteed). I had my mother call the
florist since she would be out and about over the weekend to schedule the
re-delivery. The florist was rude and said that she had the right to change
things from the order. I called the florist and said that satisfaction was
guaranteed and the florist said that since my mother was rude she would not
re-deliver. I have also filed a complaint with FTD.
05/07/10
Name (can be just your first name) : S Hernandez
Email Address (optional) :
shankunz@earthlink.net
Where are
you from? : Utah
Name of Delivering Florist : Casa Adobes
text area :
Ordered birthday flowers on May 1st for my mother in law that lives in Tucson to
be delivered on May 6th, plenty of time. They were not ordered on the 6th, so I
complained to the owner of the store the next day. He assured me he would
research the issue and get back with me. Four hours later, I had to call them
back because the flowers still had not been delivered. Woman on phone was
apologetic, but nonetheless, flowers never were received and it cost much more
$$$to get them from somewhere else on such short notice. Very disappointed in
their service.
03/10/10
I placed an order with iflorest on the 11.2.2010, they delivered on time
& the flowers were wonderful. However on checking my bank statement a few
days later I realised that I had been charged £38.61 twice. I contacted iflorest
& they said that I hadn't been overcharged & I should contact my bank as
they were to blame. I did so & my bank said that iflorest had made the
error. Iflorest denied this & ignored 15-20 emails asking for a refund. I'm
in the process of having to claim back the money from my banks fraud department.
Iflorest are a cheap company offering a cheap service!
Yours, a very angry,
unsatisfied customer!!!
------------------
02/27/10
Name: Sharon Misiak
Email:
tm8001@aol.com
From: Toms
River
Name of Delivering Florist : Christy's Florist in East
Brunswick
My sister lost her husband and in her grief forgot to
order flowers. When we arrived there were no flowers from the immediate family.
There was a snowstorm that day so calling around for flowers we finally got
an answer at Christy's. While I appreciate them taking the order on such short
notice, they (in my opinion) took advantage of my sister's situation by charging
her 325.00 for a piece that was not the value of the cost. I feel I can be a
judge of that since I was in the floral business for 18 years and know the price
of flowers etc. When I called the florist this morning on her behalf and
explained my feelings I was met with hostility and disbelief. SO I would suggest
to anyone who reads this to make use of other florists in the East Brunswick
area. Thank You.
02/23/10
Name: Vanessa
Email :
beachbutafly@yahoo.com
From : Westford
Name of Delivering Florist : Classic Flowers Chelmsford,
Ma
My wonderful husband searched high and low for purple roses.
He found them online through Classic Flowers. The dozen roses were accented
with purple baby's breath. When he picked them up from the florist. The baby's
breath was white. But too late to fix! Valentines Day morning I woke up to
beautiful roses on the table. Unfortunately the next day they were drooping and
the day after completely dead!! My husband paid $70 for these roses that the
florist cut and arranged in a vase for him. They should not have died so soon.
I was extremely busy the week following V-day. With the 3 kids on winter break.
I finally got a second to call the florist. She said there was nothing she
could do.. And said If I were to refund you or replace your roses I would have
to do that for everyone. Well note to the wise!! Do not purchase flowers from
CLASSIC FLOWERS in Chelmsford!! Ugh!!!
-------------------
02/13/10
This company is terrible. There customer service skills are horrible. They are
rude and very immature. They delivered a package to the wrong building which I
recieved and refused to come and pick it up. They cursed me over the phone and
then hung up because I wouldnt go out of my way to contact the person who it
belong to. DO NOT ORDER FROM THEM!!!!! worst customer service skills
ever!!!!
---------------------
02/12/10
Name: Ken Stowe
Email:
txstoweod@aol.com
From:
South Jordan, Utah
Name of Delivering Florist : Flower Patch - Corporate
Office and West Jordan location
I was promised employment for
deliveries at West Jordan store. I had to reaarange my schedule for the weekend,
borrowed money for gas for deliveries b/c I am out of work. Upon arrival I was
told we have not deliveries... no apology or attempt to rectify the situation.
This was the Manager! ANY COMPLAINTS OR INQUIRIES MADE TO CORPORATE OFFICE WERE
IGNORED. I WAS HUNG UP ON, PUT ON HOLD FOR HOURS AND THE ENTIRE ESTABLISHMENT
REFUSED TO LISTEN TO TAKE MY CALLS. If this is how they treat their 'help' you
know their reputation for poor quality, overpriced products and bad customer
service will also reamain consistent. Good luck trying to solve a problem. All
orders and complaints are funnelled to one phone number where you are put on
hold for hours. Wonder why that is - it's because they refuse to take
accountability or provide adequate customer service. You can't find local phone
numbers for local locations - they are unpublished. Don't think that is a
coincidence
----------------
02/11/10
Name: RW
Email:
rozwiley@yahoo.com
From:
Dallas
Name of Delivering Florist : Hamlin's Florist
Hamlins
Florist in Canton MS is thru FTD-AMOS is rude and unprofessional. Placed order
over ph-he failed to provide delivery fee amount, no receipt or and charged
$20.00 more than he ph conf. The seventy dollar peace lily had no lilies! He
said he doesnt know what happens after they get off the truck!
UNBELEIVABLE
The plant could be dead if all I know
-----------------
02/08/10
Name: Ashley Myrick
Email:
shly.myrs@gmail.com
From : Virginia Beach
Name of Delivering Florist : Rose Hall Florists- 3101
Virginia Beach blvd
One day after placing my online order for
their sweet surprises bouquet, I received a phone call informing me I owed them
$15 before they would honor my purchase. They claimed they did not offer that
bouquet at my $27.99 purchase price. I offered to bring my comp by and show them
their own website or forward all the necessary documents including their own
purchase confirmation with that exact price, they refused. Instead they implied
I was somehow lying and created my own price...which I am not sure how you could
even do that. They asked me if I wished to cancel the order and hung up on me
before I could answer. I have no idea what went wrong, but their website is
still offering the bouquet for the $27.99 price. After ebing called a liar and
their company refusing to look at the documentation evidence, I have had enough.
Don't trust this florist. Their horrible customer service and incompetent
website prices are enough to drive a person crazy.
-------------
02/03/10
Name: Ray Adams
Email Address:
floridaexec@aol.com
From: Highland Heights, Ohio
Name of Delivering Florist : Highland Heights Best
Florist
I don't know that I've ever been treated as rudely or
unprofessionally as I was by the guy I spoke with at this shop. Rather than
reliving the details, I'll simply say that I would STRONGLY recommend against
using Highland Heights Best Florist.
----------------------
12/28/09
I order flowers to be delivered on Christmas Eve for a gift.
The flowers were not delivered they were a surprise for a christmas day party
needless to say I was totally embarrassed because it spoiled the occasion. I
called them all weekend to no avail. I received a call on Monday Dec 28, 2009
they claim they try to deliver the flowers but that was not the case the
recipient was home waiting for them and there was no message left on the phone
or at the property. I would never do business with this company again they were
so callous about the wrong doing and all they offered was to return my money.
Meanwhile everyone involved was disappointed. You would think if a company that
is recommended and has a good rating would do all it could to keep its image.
buyer beware with this florist.
-----------------
12/21/09
I placed the order in the morning and was told that
delivery to a business would be made by 5 pm. When we had not heard anything by
5:30, I called and was informed that the delivery had not been made. Not only
did they not bother to call and tell us the delivery was delayed, the woman was
uncaring and unapologetic. When I informed her that we would be cancelling the
order, she said "fine," and hung up on me. I then called back and wanted to
know when we would be credited for our cancellation and that I wanted to speak
with the owner of the company. She stated that she was the manager and the
company policy was to discuss problems with the manager and she would not
forward my message on to the president.
-------------------------
12/19/09
Name: dolores
Email :
drodenberg@sbcglobal.net
From : st. louis
Ordered
flowers on 12-17-09: they were deliverd but not as shown on site-skimpy and
vase not at all as pictured. I even had second thoughts about ordering from ftd
and started to log out; but then received one of those $10 off coupons. Seems
the discount gave the florist even less to work with--what a disappointment.
------------------
11/05/09
Name: Didi
Email:
lvskaui@verizon.net
From: Richmond, VA
Name of Delivering Florist : Tropical Treehouse Florist
(FTD)
I received a flower bouquet today from one of my bosses,
who is out of town. I was stunned when it arrived, because it is truly bizarre
and unattractive. It is yellow mums arranged in a small (8" round) saucer with
1 yellow rose (just the flower, no stem showing)stuck in the middle of the
mums. It came with a huge bright red bow that literally covered most of the
flowers. The bow came off immediately, which was a big improvement. Out of
curiousity, I went to the Tropical Treehouse website to see what they offer, and
there is nothing that even comes close to what this "arrangement" looks like. In
fact they claim to pride themselves on their "designer arrangements"! Their
designers must have internet degrees, because my grandkids could design
something better than this monstrocity!!! Anyway, since I don't know what my
boss ordered, I don't have a basis for a complaint--except that this is the
ugliest flower arrangement ever!
----------------------
11/02/09
Name: Patricia Hall
Email:
hall.house@sbcglobal.net
From: California/Arizona
Name of Delivering Florist : Flowers for
You/Cambell Floral in Tucson, Arizona
I ordered flowers for my
dad's funeral, I requested the Deluxe. It was an embarrassment when they
arrived it wasn't at all as the picture they just spread them out to make it
look bigger. They charged alot when I called them to complain about the
arrangment the person that answered refused to let me speak to the manager and
when I asked for the manager's name he refused to give me the name and hung up
on three times. Good luck to any one that can tolerate a business behavior like
theirs!
------------------
09/05/09
Name: Sari
Where are you from? : Rolling Hills
Name of Delivering Florist : The
Flower Pot
Unsatisfied with the quality of the arrangements from
this shop. Seems like they are beginners.
Would not give a refund when I
complained and when I go to the store they are usually closed.
----------------------
07/27/09
Name: Candy
From: Herndon, VA.
Name of Delivering Florist : The
Reston Flower Shop
I received an arrangement from this shop, only
to find the flowers broken and dying! It was a truly ugly arrangement, with
flowers that do not go together. Glads, spider mums,bamboo, and carnations in
purple,yellow pink,green,and peach. I tried to call the shop only to have the
phone ring 20-35 times with no answer. After one hour of trying, I decided to
use my cell phone, funny, they answered on the 3rd ring. I told them to come
get the flowers and credit my aunt's acct. They would not do that. They said
they would send new ones on Monday. The anniversary of my Mom's death was on
Friday, not Monday. The flowers that were supposed to be sent were all pink
carnations with baby's breath!
-----------------
07/07/09
Name: Arariel
Name of Delivering Florist :
Floristone.com
Upon looking for a genuine 'local florist', I find
floristone.com listed. It purported to be a local florist from the small town I
was searching for. When I clicked on the 'About Us' link, this is what the
'local rhetoric' sounds like:
"We were founded from a family florist business
over 40 years ago. We are first and foremost florists. Our experience and
expertise allows us to offer you the best possible online flower shopping
experience.
Our extensive catalog features flowers for every occasion.
Our well known brands include flowers by FTD® and our extensive network of
florists allows us to offer same day delivery to nearly all of the United States
and Canada. Most of all we want you to be satisfied and stand behind our
products with a knowledgeable staff of professional florists. We established
ourselves online in 1999 and since then, we've become one of the leading
internet florists."
The guy is based in New York! Or at least this is
what the whois info says below. I wouldn't have a problem with this, if the
listing was a lot more honest about what they were doing and where they were
located. Just goes to show you that you can't trust
anyone.
Registrant:
FloristOne.com Inc.
239 Hawkins Ave
Lake
Ronkonkoma, New York 11779
United States
Registered through:
GoDaddy.com, Inc. (www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name:
FLORISTONE.COM
Created on: 27-Dec-98
Expires on: 27-Dec-13
Last Updated
on: 12-Mar-09
Administrative Contact:
Perry, Michael mike@floristone.com
FloristOne.com
Inc.
239 Hawkins Ave
Lake Ronkonkoma, New York 11779
United
States
6315853715 Fax -- 6314716887
Technical Contact:
Perry,
Michael mike@floristone.com
FloristOne.com
Inc.
239 Hawkins Ave
Lake Ronkonkoma, New York 11779
United
States
6315853715 Fax -- 6314716887
-----------------------
Name: Tim
From: Austin Tx
I was looking for some true blue roses and called many florists but apparently blue roses don't really exist. I was told white roses are either sprayed or dyed to get the color blue. Is that correct? People really buy sprayed roses?
-----------------------
Name: Annie
From: S.A
Name of Delivering Florist : Urban Florist 26B
Dawas Road Ascot Park S.A
My boyfriend ordered 12 dozen red roses
and was told they come in 12 so he could not order them in less than that.He
paid $65 and you would expect good quality. I received 10 yellow wilted roses. I
called up and was told that someone would be around to have a look, I said I
didn't necessarily want a refund but to get fresh roses that won't be dead in a
day, and was pleasant the whole time. The woman arrived and seemed to be on a
mission to attack me and said in an abusive manner "they're not dead, and
where's the arrangement", to this I replied, "the cellophane", I threw it in the
bin. (As you do) She told me that this is f- ing ridiculous and you can 'f' off.
She then left my house swearing and yelling abuse as she left. All this was done
in front of my 10 year old daughter. She then rang my boyfriend and said that I
was abusive and if I he wanted to ever order flowers they would not send them to
me. She decimated my character and swore in front of a child and still didn't
take the flowers. I am shocked that I was treated like this, but also I forgot
that there were such arrogant, inappropriate, childish people out there. How
does she wish to run a business? It seems into the ground. Don't ever buy from
these people, thay are feral to say the least. Who would have thought receiving
flwers could be such a nasty experience.